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schrodcat (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
"Free will is an ILLUSION. Higher forms of inteeligence know what we will do before we think of the action considered."Interesting. You describe something as being an illusion and right next talk about what "higher forms of intelligence" (do you mean gods?) know. Weird, uh?Anyway, the core of the matter isn't about the "what" nor the "when", but the "why". Even if your fantastic "higher forms of intelligence" would know in advance, it doesn't follow that they can interfere with one's volition
LAMetalhead (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
Free will is an ILLUSION. Higher forms of inteeligence know what we will do before we think of the action considered.
zombiesoiree (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
I think the implication is that the motion begins in the brain before the center of decision making is activated. So, we can posit that these decisions are "subconscious," or that we're not clear on which parts of the brain are really part of decision making.Interesting video.
29XXX (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
1. The 'conscious' test subject is told you must make a decision at some point in the near future.2. According to the video: the electrodes are connected to the right/left 'MOTOR' cortexes and "mid-line"(?) so what, exactly, is being measured? Preparatory 'tension' related to calculations for coordinated 'immanent' movements (left. arm needs to rise slightly, hand needs to contort, middle finger up and to the right), some 'stage' of a 'choosing' process, or something else?
29XXX (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
Also two thoughts come to mind regarding the experiment depicted in the video:
29XXX (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
Prof. John Searle: ""...if you're looking at 'consciousness' you gotta look at 'free will' because its one in the same set of problems.""interesting quote I think.
Dirtfire (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
My deciding to reply to you message at all is a clear demonstration of free-will. This debate is a case of too many people trying to look smart by overcomplexifying the simplest things.Try debating something that matters, for a change.
schrodcat (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
"It has NOTHING to do with your A or B, and it doesn't need to."Once again. It looks like I'm not making myself clear. I KNOW what the test is about. And precisely because it isn't about A or B, it isn't about choices and free will."You can't provide any evidence for this supernatural free will separate from the physical world."Who said supernatural or separate from nature? Is self-awareness reproducible or understood? No! Is it real? Yes. Is it supernatural? No. Explain it!
HotnessTim (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
No, I am not agreeing with you. Just because we use the word "choice" doesn't mean that free will exists.Choices made based on the physical setting and state of the brain would not be "free will"Choice != Free will.The test is about brain activity when someone is doing what they would consider to be free will. It has NOTHING to do with your A or B, and it doesn't need to.You can't provide any evidence for this supernatural free will separate from the physical world.
schrodcat (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
"The test is about brain activity when the person makes the choice to press it."You said "makes the choice". So you're agreeing with me, that this experiment isn't about free will, to the extent that it merely "describes" what happens in the brain and that it doesn't explain:A) Why I can refuse to follow instruction altogether.B) Why once the build-up of "press the key" has started in my subconscious, I can still veto it at the last fraction of a second (another finding never pointed out). |
